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Freud wins again

I married the male version of my mother. Seems that’s the pattern with narc abuse. I eventually got smart, got divorced, and married “my father” and have been married 15 years this year (together for 17). He even has the same sense of humor my dad had. The father in this story is my mother with the triangulation and lying. It’s unfortunate that it took me until my late 40s to figure out she was a covert narcissist. The “out of the fog” website and forum was such a great resource. I actually ended up there because of my current DH’s mother (now deceased) and then realized my mother was an issue too.

I just want to say thank you for sharing. Commenters like you all over Reddit made me realize I was not the problem. It was narc abuse. I was able to get help and therapy in my early 20s. I still struggle, but comments like yours made me realize it’s common and I’m not all alone on an island 😂 thank you for sharing your story 💜 I wish you all the good vibes!

Head on over to the r/raisedbynarcissists sub Or the r/justnomil sub (it’s for moms too, not just in-laws) if you haven’t already. Such validation.

Thank you! I’m not quite at the point where I feel comfortable opening up my mental health to a whole sub of stuff, but I will one day! And now I have the exact subs saved in my comments!

I didn’t mean you had to post anything. But it’s there for the reading.

you certainly dont have to open up like that if you’re not comfortable! even just reading other people’s similar experiences can be cathartic, in a way.

SIL literally did the “triangulation” on the dad! “Kids, wanna go stay at no rules grandpa’s?!” “Well if you say no now, you’re disappointing your grandsons!” SIL needs to go and Dad needs to be cut off for those kids to get any real chance.

You marry what you know, I wonder what their mother is/was like

My exact thoughts as well while I was reading the update.

I was so worried about not turning into my mother that I didn’t notice when I ended up marrying her.

I had exactly the same thought when reading the last update.

I was gonna say that he’s not divorcing her because that would mean he’s the only one dealing with the kids, but – he’s *already* the only one actually dealing with the kids. And it really seems like her being around is doing way more harm than good. On the other hand, the default in a lot of states is 50/50 custody, and she seems to care about appearances enough that she’d claim to want that – so if divorce meant her having full custody of those kids half the time, that might be worse than the situation already is.

Oh, that’s an easy one. It’s called “first refusal” or “right of first refusal”. It pops up in custody agreements all the time when one parent has issues with the other parent’s choices for secondary caregivers. It would mean that she *has* to call him first if she needs a caregiver during her custody time, and *has* to tell him where the kids are if he can’t take them, so he can go and get them as soon as possible. He’d still have to give them back to her if it’s still her legal time. A few months of them spending 80-90% of her time at his place because she “needed” a babysitter and getting custody amended would be a cakewalk.

Op’s brother should divorce, go for full custody, and hire a full-time nanny who has experience and education about dealing with kids with behavioral problems. Get them on a healthy diet and a schedule and enforce the hell out of it. I’d be willing to bet SIL gives up her parental rights. It sounds like the only reason she wouldn’t want no custody is to avoid child support.

That was the reason a friend on another forum wasn’t divorcing her husband. Her MIL was a horrible person and she knew that during her husband’s custody time, he’d just dump the kids on his mother. She was determined to hang on to protect the kids as much as possible.

This is common in the shitty inlaw subs too.

Sounds like grandpa is the only one actually dealing with the kids to me. Lots of paid child care, pawned off on grandpa, brother works a lot.

But grandpa *isn’t* actually dealing with the kids. They’re just existing in his space (in an incredibly unhealthy way) and even that is too much for him to the point he was planning to dump them off on OOP… with or without her consent.

Yup, exactly. And they’re all shocked these kids don’t know how to act.

I don’t have issues with people having help. I’m happy for people who can afford extra hands! I think it’s complete and utter bullshit to have all these resources, and still not want to parent your kids. Bro may as well divorce her, and hire help all around. It’s the same thing.

It sounds like she hates her kids. Controversial opinion maybe, but if youre only gonna love your kids if they meet certain criteria maybe you shouldnt have kids at all…

I’m pretty sure this is a popular opinion. Or at least it should be.

I need your flair story but also youre right

Enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/yDreb5Ddgv

For real she should have gotten a painting of a gold fish, a kitten or puppy would be too hectic for her and I suspect even a real fish would be too much work/stress.

My kid is almost grown up now. And if you had asked me to describe “my ideal child” 25 years ago, I doubt that I would have described my kid. But here’s the thing: I have my ideal child in every way possible. He’s healthy and happy and knows who he is.

The issue here isn’t even that she doesn’t want to parent her kids. Plenty of people refuse to parent their children, yet still actively take care of them 24/7 without issue. (Also, did anyone see ages mentioned for these boys? I’m guessing 8-10?) I wonder if this isn’t even just about their behavior. I mean obviously they’re entitled little feral goblins. Which although it’s clearly her own god damned fault, it does mean that they’re obviously difficult to manage – and has likely worsened as the boys have gotten older. But, I think her aversion to her kids started way before this. I think the non parenting, the spoiling, and her obvious distain for her kids are all symptoms of a much larger issue. Based on what OOP said about what SIL wanted before getting pregnant, and the kind of person she is, I suspect that this is all fueled by a cement-truck load of good ol’, deep seated resentment. She was already disappointed from the jump as soon as she found out she was pregnant with two boys rather than the one girl she wanted. She likely romanticized becoming a mom and how her kids would be. However, ALL of that hinged on her having one girl. And since that wasn’t the case, that meant it just was no longer possible. It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy. She essentially manifested her future as a parent. Like those people who have very specific expectations built up in their mind, that if ONE tiny detail doesn’t go as planned, they convince themselves that the entire thing is fucked, it cannot be salvaged, and essentially set themselves up for failure, which ends up just making themselves miserable AF. Home girl needs therapy like 10 years ago.

And then in the nearest future she would wonder why she’s alone with everyone cutting ties with her so pathetic

It truly sounds like they’d be better off if the brother divorced his wife and raised them on his own. It’s not as though she seems to want to even be near her own sons :c

Divorce would probably feel like a dream to her, she would never have to see those kids again!

So your SIL is a shit parent, constantly pawns off her children on unsuspecting family, saw you and her husband scrambling to understand what was happening and she said nothing so it didn’t derail her plans. I’d never let this woman near me ever again.

The fact her apology was to once again pawn the kids off is sad but hilarious. Her mind runs only on that one track – sending her kids as far away from her as possible. Those poor children.

And every day of their lives, they know that their mom wants as little to do with them as possible. They are on their way to being fully dysfunctional adults with generational emotional abuse. Thanks mom & grandpa!

Don’t forget dad who just lets it all happen!

One of _many_ reasons I don’t have kids is that I need a lot of peace and quiet and no child deserves to grow up knowing mommy only likes them when they’re quiet and not trying to interact with me. I feel terrible for those kids, they definitely know their mom doesn’t like them.

I love my daughters to pieces. But I’m also a single mom with 75% custody to autistic kindergartener twins who is lucky enough to have active and involved grandparents. Once every week or two my daughters have a grandparents play date for a couple of hours and once every other month or so they have a sleepover. And my daughters still get emotional and clingy and, “But we miss you!” over being left with my parents (who are a way better party than I’ll ever be) and need extra time to reconnect when I join them or pick them up. I can’t imagine the damage it would do to them if I were constantly ditching them every chance I could. Those poor boys.

I feel like I was reading a slow motion train crash on this post. So glad that OP refused to back down, actually communicated like a grown up with her grown up siblings, and got to the root of the problem. So now she knows TWO of her family are liars whose word can’t be trusted. Great.

I kinda expected oop to go through with the medical evaluation thing and was looking forward to reading about her explaining to his GP or a psychiatrist, with pops sitting there, how her father randomly tried to rip some disability accomodation out of the wall at her house, only stopped when she shouted at him, then talked about her nephews moving into her place without any given reason why that would be necessary or fall on her, and then vehemently avoided answering questions and pretended everything was normal, and how that eval went. 😀

I forcibly had my mom’s mental state evaluated after she (at 70) climbed onto the sloped roof of her own house; smashed a window in; climbed into the room her former lodger was squatting in and had barricaded herself into; and threatened her with death, after which she climbed back out the window and wandered the neighborhood before falling asleep behind some neighbors’ trash cans because, “[Squatter] stole my house. I’m homeless now.” And even then I was only able to force the evaluation because I convinced the cops to put her on an involuntary psych hold as a danger to herself and others. Anyways, she said, “Whoops I was stressed and drunk,” and they said she was fine to live her life that way if she wished (minus the death threats but I got the squatter out while she was on the psych hold so she mellowed out). So yeah. Unless the dad agreed to the evaluation it wouldn’t happen and all he’d have to do is say he had too much to drink that day.